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Speed definitely goes to Xbow but it has nothing to do with Bard subclass...

Xbow > Bow

I say this because Xbow rogue has the lowest** SP requirement. 0 Gap, Xbow skills only.

I don't have the patience to fill 250-300 mastery lvls for a chinese character.

Here is my scenario:

Full Str Bow ---VS-- Full Str Xbow
(pacheon only) ----- (xbow only)

anyone going to claim the bow has a chance?
(Honestly, IDK, but compare the time it takes for each build to get to lvl 5, and I'd go Euro every time)

** maybe 2nd lowest, 1st is single weapon warrior?
edit = reply notification

I know that i'm just interested on the best all round bow.

euro for die fast, low pot delay but very very high dmg, chinese bow for big range of skills, tank (pot fast), but lower dmg, also take time for SP farming. i generally like chinese chars more because they have alot more skills and fghts dnt just last the 1 or 2 secs, SP farming comes as a price.

lol again get any europ xbow my level and i sure you i will win 3/5 times
hands down.
the 35m range thing is useless to use china bow.
phanto walk(22m) and we already next to then. we got stunt if we stunt then trust me they will die how long do stunt last 3 sec? or 5sec?
i can use 2 strong bow in 5 secs thas comes around 6k damage per strong bow
6x2=12 with europ pot delay they will die. only way to kill is with 1 crytical or know down+crytical. i use ice for all the europ i fight and i always get the same result. thye get owned and can't touch me. only way a rogue can kill me is using the bitch skill of hidding to do 1 hit begind my back other than the they can't touch me.

China Bow Owned's period.

Indeed, very annoying isn't it. ^^

Wait, what's the chance on that stun? 5%? 10%? You realize you can't compete with 75% KB and 50% KD, right? KD lasts like 3 secs and the Xbow can attack with certain skills during that time. If you stun, I haven't seen archers stun in PvP more than once during 20 minute pot fights. In those 20 mins euro xbow can crit you like 100 times. You can PvP someone 5 levels lower than you and still lose. Tell them not to use crossbow extreme and they can take enough to kill you.

Wth u comparing KB thats is 75% with the stun that is 25% (do some research before posting those paphetic numbers please). Well guess what we chinese bows got 150% KB with a quick casted skill. Actually 5 x 30%. So we can keep the enemy far away if every KB succeeds. Gives us alot of time to repot.
Im not saying that euro xbow suks. U just gave the amazing skills it has too.
Just dont go saying things that arent correct, or saying chinese bow sux.

I know that I could continuously KS a crossbow at moles ... when they are the same level as me ... and make them mad enough to first swear at me and then go away.

I also know that they had to run in farther than I did to attack so that they never got the first hit. That they don't hit as high ... and if you spawn party mobs on them when they are grinding solo that they have to choose to either not use crossbow extreme and not do much damage (and die slowly) or keep using crossbow extreme and die quickly.

I think they need a party to really grind effectively.

Alright, so the stun is 25%, I will give you that one since I have not played my chinese char in so long and I never bothered to check the skills. As I said, I have hardly ever seen an archer stun land at higher lvl PvP between chinese. And if you think you can attack with anything besides that combo shot while the xbow is knocking you down with a 50% chance and knocking you back with 75% chance on moves they use one after the other in PvP, then you are mistaken.


yamataka, the rogue you were ksing was either really low lvl, or he got power lvled and doesn't know what he's doing. I am sure that long shot that has +7m range and is the strongest attack of a crossbow rogue would be hitting long before your first attack. And with 25 crit max on 8D crossbows, i am sure the xbow can 1 hit the moles more often than you can...if you can do that at all.

You guys are desperately trying to defend your builds, but I bet you would be amazed if you start your own xbow rogues and play after level 40.

Oh and in closing, good luck poting yourself out of a xbow crit when they Long shot you for 30k at 76+.

by far xbow, especially with CE

What you said may be true ... though the guy claimed to be 69 while he threatened me with certain death etc etc ... I supposedly will never be able to job again because he will see to it that I will always die (lol!)

Maybe he didn't know what he was doing ... maybe he lied. I honestly don't know the levels for the euro gear at all. This is what I observed though ... max hit with xbow extreme was typically in the 6k to 7k range and he was not 1 hitting moles. To his credit there was a 10k hit once. So basically what he did was change himself sort of into a nuker type build with xbow extreme as it lowers your hp or defense?. Without xbow extreme his hits on the moles were in the 2k to 3k range ... sort of what a typical str build would have.

His biggest problem was in that it is not only about how you hit but also about how you stand up defensively. He hit fine with xbow extreme. But you know ... I am evil. I talked a friend into joining me in an 8 person party to spawn party moles ... and that xbow guy went down. He came back and tried again without xbow extreme and that would have probably worked ... but he was unlucky and a party giant killed him and he gave up.

Every build has pros and cons ... I know everyone is all gaga over how the euro builds hit ... and with the proper buffs and use of skills they can hit very well indeed. But just like any build, you really need to know how to play it. I think the biggest mistake people are making is refusing to play the euros in parties ... and trying to solo all the time like this xbow guy was doing. BTW has anyone pointed out how SLOW these guys run?

I definitely one hit the moles and can stand in the middle of the room and mostly turn to hit the moles on the sides while the xbow guy ran back and forth. I can slide in a Ghost Walk here and there too if I needed to get around the pillars. Maybe he doesn't know about long shot ... or maybe it has a really long cool down and so he chose not to use it? I know I was having a fun time indeed.

I have a xbow character but she is only level 29 so far. She is not nearly as fun as my Chinese bow. Besides I don't think I am accomplished enough at swearing or egotistical and bad tempered enough to be a proper euro character.

70:70 bow with ice, freeze the Xbow's little ass!

another pro of chinese bow: u can go hybrid

I like how you guys point out that you have lightning mastery for example, or cold mastery, but you don't really consider the bard subclass or cleric subclass. With cleric subclass, you are 100% immune. With Bard, you can solo in the caves super easily, and maybe only a party giant would be a problem.

You can try soloing in the cave without using imbue or any skills other than pacheon and see how you fair against even that horrible rogue.


Not all euros are egotistical and ill mannered, and if they are it is probably because they've died too much being a party of chinese that didn't know how to party.

If that rogue never used long shot, it shows how bad of a rogue he was. He also might have been a nooby PvP rogue and use crossbow when he didn't have the skills up to date in the first place. With 35m range on fast shot/rapid shot, he could have lured moles from the corner of the room as well. Obviously a bad example of a rogue, but it shows you something about the power of a class in relation to knowing how to play it.

i'll kick his little ass b4 he can buff all his cleric anal shit

....yes, because you are awesome without your own buffs. He would kill you before you kill him.

Crossbow does huge damage thats for sure, and is able to kill you oponent in 1 crit if lucky, but on the other hand hes dying of 1 crit(actually sometimes dont need crit to do that), that is how it works with crossbow and extreme. Damage is awesome, but at this state rogues are damn vulnerable. Since bows have also range, it makes easier to fight. Also take in mind that archer only need to interrupt a little rogues attack and hes fully potted, whille rogues cant do that easily that

Without crossbow extreme its different, no matter KD, KB, your opponent will keep getting up, and in the end kill you(assuming high auto pot, str char). Of course there are not so many times where rogue is gonna fight without stealth and crossbow extreme.

So many people think that rogue is some kind of god and in unstoppable, but you will see that, its not like rogues kill you all the time and you have no chance, most of times slow reaction kills you

Wanna great char against rogues, pick s/s warrior

But again, thats just my input being lvl50 rogue

Again, you cannot pot yourself out of a 1 shot KO with a crit, and crits with 25 crit on a weapon are like 1/4. Considering KB and KD the bow would surely get up... and be downed again and again until finally, 1 shot KO due to a crit. After 8D, PvP is a little different because rogues will usually pimp their weapons until they get 20+ crit.

Again, so are you talking what you have experienced, or after all those vids you have seen? So you should know, that 1 hit KO is not that easily. ANd what happens when you dont KD or 1 hit? rogues is dead. Also, some kind of crappy pure int, maybe get always 1hitted, but not full str. I must admit that low lvl bow has smaller chances to win rogue ,since he lack of his best skills, but later it changes a bit. Also to all people who are not gonna believe that bow has any chances, at least you are gonna die with rogue to other class, which bow gonna survive and win

NOW ALL CHINESE BOW ARE MOSTly hybrid 7070 and they are all ice/lightning. DO U TINK XBOW STILL OWNS ? STOP LYING TO URSELF FAce the fact.if u gonna compare damage hybrid at lvl 80 with lvl 80 snow shield just going to win xbow like ABC.20+ shooting range. BIG DEAL ?
Lightning at lvl 76 has 20+ distance.which means if u r out of range u can just use grass walk to get near that xbow and smack him hard.with snow shield u will not die 100% gurantee

I guarantee that even with snow shield you will get 1 hit by same level rogue when it crits with long shot. And when it comes to max damage of a bow, it's always the crit that counts. Crossbow crits for more damage and it crits more than bow. You stop lying to yourself, hybrid bow may be great for grinding or average damage but you will not defeat anyone with good equips using protectors because you are dividing damage. Rogues wear protectors equivalent armor, with better p.def and m.def than chinese protectors. A rogue can easily take 3-4 shots at level 80, and with a pot after the 2-3rd shot, it's more like 6-7. Do you really think you can hit a rogue 7 times before it KB/KDs you? I didn't think so.

Hybrid bow, it's a great idea if you are doing PvE, but it fails miserably in PvP especially against a Xbow. There is no imbue in euro, all the damage of a xbow rogue is purely STR. Maybe if you wore armor you would survive a crit from a xbow, and that's a huge maybe, and of course the next hit will kill you anyway.

Hybrid bows...your extra M def and less hp are not going to help you survive a crit and that seals your fate.

True, the damage of xbow is awesome. But i'm wondering if an xbow cud 1 hit crit a hybrid chinese bow with mana shield + ice wall on? I think chinese cud phantom, freeze and 1 shot an xbow too.

And extra int for hybrid bow don't just give only extra mdef but extra magic atk too, gud damage especially on pure str's.

And if u said u cud have 25+ crit max, chinese bow have skills actually have +crit and +atk rating.

Sure, XBOW Euro may be invincible but not GREAT.

no way can rogue 1 crit kill 70:70 with mana shield, 70:70 bow at 80 have around 13k hp or maybe little ,mre with max blue, with snow shield 50%, this means the rogue will crit the bow 26k, they are able to crit a PURE STR 26k, but when youa re fighting people with a lot less hp, the ratio of hp and damagae will decrease dramatically, its like when a pure str glaive fights another str, they are doing pretty big numbers, but when against pure int, they are hitting alot less. IF, IF they can, i'm pretty sure the ice wall can hold take most of that dmg.

that's the dumbest post i ever seen.

defence: bow
pot delay: bow
speed: bow
chineseness: bow

4-3

LOL

gayness = xbox
noob = xbow
anal raped in groups = xbow
None flashy skills = xbow

7:4 xbow wins

......Let me show you a dumber post.






Defence = xbow unless the bow wears armor, and only pure int would do that and that bow would be a bad move for a nuker. The xbow skills also have defensive abilities better than the bow simply because of higher chance.

Pot Delay = bow, I can't argue with that. I can but I don't really want to.

Speed = xbow, it shoots all it's skills faster, the only reason why speed might go to bow is because it has the combo move, and that's actually slower than the fast shot/rapid shot of the xbow, but it does have more hits so I am willing to go for even, although rogue is actually faster in the other 3 skills it has.

Chineseness = dumb comparison, this could be included in the dumbest post ever.

i think he means speed as in running speed and moveability, euro's dnt have grass walk or phantom, after killing 1 person and they guna get deep anal in group unless near safe zone, they will just get ass raped after the 1 kill unless they save invisibility for running away, but in a group i doubt u guna be able to kil lwithout invisibility, all players always try kill the rogues, obviously unless they have cleric with them. but clerics can bend both ways.

If your subclass is bard, they do. If we are only comparing bow to xbow it would not matter. I also don't see how speed is relevant when you can buy the 100% potions and have more speed than anyone else at 80 cap.

Damn my colour is Red. >_>