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well i know the masteries incrase dmg by 1 % each does heuksai mastery increase the dmg of nuking while holding the spear or just the skills in the tree, I feel kind dumb for hving to ask but was curious

I'd presume you wouldnt need to hold the spear...
I mean it would say otherwise if you did.

Hmm?

well you get a dmg bonus for every lvl of mastery of your forces and i know for weapon attacks, but would spear nuker get the mastery dmg bonus of heuk while only nuking

A nuke still deals both physical and magical damage, so yes: there is an increase in damage. The purer you are however, the smaller that increase will be. For most spear builds, the increase can be neglected.

ok so ur saying a pure int spear user with spear mastery can hit more then without a spear mastery?

Yes, but only a very little bit more.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Nukes are ONLY magical damage. Using a weapon in general increase the damage your nukes do because of the magical atk and magical reinforce. Increasing the mastery of Heuksal WON'T increase the damage of your nukes. It will only increase the damage of your Heuksal skills. The reason you do more damage with a weapon than without one is because there is a magical reinforce and atk attribute.

@Phul, if what you say is true then 1/1 hybrids should do the most damage with nukes. Nukes are only Magical, Physical atks are only Physical, and Imbue is only magical.

ok so if you are a blader with fire imbue, would u be dealing magical damage?

all chinese char should wear prot or garm then? (unless fighting warrior rogue)

KD = Physical
Imbue = Magical
KD + Imbue = Physical AND Magical.

Yes, all chinese characters should wear protector or garm.

NO POINT IN ARMOR PEOPLE YOU HEARD IT FROM THE MAN, TAKE THAT CRAPPY ARMOR OFF.

i prefure garm nyway lol

some people still hve fashion sense though, armor looks way better then garms, and depending what you grind on they are better

thanks baro its what i was wonderingi asssumed it worked that way but i wasn't sure

I'm sorry, but you're wrong on both accounts. All Chinese damage is both magical and physical, and these damages are multiplied by their physical and magical balance. Hence 1/1 hybrids deal a lot less damage on their nukes than full INT, because most of that damage is magical, and now multiplied by a smaller magical balance number.

Wrong again. All chinese WEAPONS are magical and physical BUT the force trees are ONLY magical and the weapon trees are ONLY physical. That is why Pure Str does shit damage with nukes, have even been in game lately? Any attack that involves physical attack will have the damage the attack does and any attack that involves magical attack will have the damage the attack does. The physical attack multiplier on your weapon is NOT applied when you do a nuke, this is common knowledge. The only time a Chinese does magical and physical damage at the same time is when they use their imbue + physical attack.

I'll take the first fire nuke:
Mag.Att 123 ~ 205 (250%)
Only the magical attack on the weapon effects this.
Now Heuksal:
First Heuksal Move:
Phy.Att 18 ~ 23 (160%)
Only the physical damage attack on the weapon effects this.

You obviously misunderstood how chinese work: It isn't all chinese attacks, it is all Chinese weapons use both magical and physical attacks but in order to take advantage of both attributes you must use the Imbue + Physical attack. This isn't rocket science.

The weapon has both physical and magical attributes: http://www.konpaku.com.br/silkroad/equi ... have=sword
The attacks don't! If all Chinese attacks used both magical and physical atk from the weapon 1]There would be a visible value for BOTH magical and physical attacks not just one, and 2]Physical attacks should deal magical damage without imbue.

Neither of those are the case and all you have managed to prove is your lack of basic reasoning. Care to continue?

Each character has a physical attack AND magical attack number, based on STR, INT, weapon stats, weapon mastery, and reinforce values. The skill damage (physical OR magical) is added to that, and the whole thing is multiplied by physical/magical balance, and diminished by physical/magical defense. See also viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62990

You still deal both type of damage, but the skilltype you use only adds to one of them. Your total damage is the phy_dmg + mag_dmg as shown in the above mentioned thread.

Please don't use such a condescending tone with me. If I'm wrong, explain to me why I'm wrong, and I will either give counter argument or admit that you are correct.

You only deal both types of damage when using both types of damage. Each ATTACK isn't both magical and physical, otherwise there would be a physical and magical multiplier on each attack. Chinese characters are capable of using both magical and physical attacks due to their nature but this doesn't change what each attack is multiplied by. Magical attacks are multiplied only by the magical damage and physical attacks are multiplied only by physical damage. The only time both attributes are used is when you have imbue+physical attack.

The difference in damage that you see is due to the strength lowering the magical balance, which only effects magical attacks. If the attack has both a magical and physical reinforce then it uses both, but because the attack only has one of each it uses only it's specific reinforce.

Your example that the physical damage offsets the magical one is wrong as well, this change in damage due to balance can be seen in European characters. Add strength to a wizard and its damage will be lowered, add int to a warrior and its damage will be lowered. Chinese are capable of using both magical and physical reinforces simultaneously but that doesn't prove the nature of EACH SINGLE ATTACK. Do not generalize based on the nature of a race, the attacks are not multiplied by physical reinforce if they're magical.

<Moving to C&S> ~ BX.

Nope, its about weapon skillz,

nukes will take the force masterys only and takes the Mag attack from the weapon..

not the +??% of the masterys

A spear leevel 80 nukerwith 80 masterys of spear will hit same as a level 80 swordshield nuker (using a spear without spear masterys)

very simply put ... slight fix with blue.

nuke = magical attack = factors all magical attacks, reinforce and mastery attributes.

on question : weapon mastery does not effect nuke dmg.

heard of pure int only light mastery build? heh heh ... very old and simple build.

uhhh nuke deals PURE MAGICAL DAMAGE no physical.!
if it does deal some physical damage im pretty sure you would be able to crit using a nuke....

Perhaps I should rephrase, because it's starting to sound like we mean the same thing:

When I nuke, I deal the following damage components:
Physical attack of my character, influenced by STR, phy weapon, phy reinforce, weapon mastery
Magical attack of my character, influenced by INT, mag weapon, mag reinforce
Magical attack of my imbue, influenced by skill, mastery level imbue force
Magical attack of my nuke, influenced by skill, mastery level nuke force
The total physical attack is multiplied by the physical balance and physical damage buff/passive.
The total magical attack is multiplied by the magical balance and magical damage buff.
Total damage of my nuke = physical damage + magical damage.

Btw, did anyone bother to read the thread I linked to?



This part I disagree with, as does the entire thread I linked to: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62990

No, no, no, no. You do NOT deal ANY physical damage when you nuke. Nukes are 100% magical attacks.

Yes, we can continue to disagree about this. You have a few supporters here; I have a few supporters in the thread I mentioned. The biggest difference is that the people in the thread I mentioned actually performed tests based on their assumptions. I suggest you do the same to prove them wrong.

nukes are purely magical damage, thats why nukes cant crit, and therefore increasing hekusal skills doesnt help nuking dmage

Please provide test results rather than assumptions. See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62990

I presume a simple test could be set up as follows: take a low level nuker (level 30), and make him nuke 20 Mangyangs with and without cleric STR buff and/or with and without bardic phy damage increase dance. If you're right, the damage with and without buff should be about equal. If I'm right, you should see a (small) increase in damage with the buffs.

dude its true a s/s nuker using a spear will nuke same damage as a spear nuker.
i have a lvl 80 pure int spear and s/s.
i like my s/s better casue it does same damage as spear nuker when switching to spear.
you might not belive i have 2 lvl 80 characters if you want proof come to tibet ill show you them.
i have prem on both so its easy to log in for me

Do you have any measured numbers to back this up or is this just a feeling you have? If you do, I will readily admit that I'm wrong, which also means the thread I mentioned needs an update. Do not forget that the damage increase IF it exists will be minimal for high level INT players, since most of their damage will come from magical sources either way. That part's easily visible when you hit someone with your weapon without imbue: there's hardly any damage. That's why I suggested to test it with a low level nuker.

i dont have any measure of number right now...(At School)
when i get home ill log in to do the damage test using a npc spear so that its even.

Interesting theory, I'm just wondering if we should consider testing hybrid 1:7 nukers as well. If you're right, we don't know the actual phys/mag balance (i.e. a mostly physical weapon vs. a mostly magical weapon) that it becomes apparent that phys damage is actually added.

I am thinking it would not be all that different, if this is true, perhaps 20-50 points of damage @ level 30, which would be difficult to test - you'd have to do it at least 500 times (with and without STR buffs) to get valid results since the damage output has such a range.

Make sure you do it on low level mobs or the phy defense of the mob will seriously influence the measurements. The damage range on the nuke is already larger than the physical damage may increase.

You linked to a thread that disagrees with you COMPLETELY!


Yeah, I was right and you were wrong.

Another quote from that thread:



Did you grab that thread, read one part, and then discard the rest?

No offense but again, that thread COMPLETELY disagrees with you. There is no mention of anything physical being related to magical attack and I suspect the others posting here didn't even bother reading what you linked.

One Phrase comes to mind: Can I say, "Self-Owned".

According to your link when you nuke the following factors come into play (if) the target has no defense, such as on a mangyang:

Magical Base Damage
Magical Skill Damage
Magical Balance
Magical Mastery

When they have defense you add the Enemy's Magical Defense. I cannot stress this enough but seriously, the human mind sees what it wants to see. Hell, I'll screenshot the thread just to prove it:



As you can clearly see physical <insert w/e word here> is not involved for magical damage and magical <insert w/e word here> is not involved with physical damage.



The only time both magical and physical damage is applied is when a Chinese uses a physical attack and Imbue.

What you are relying on to make your point is this post:



Look at the attack he is using, I bolded it. Once again, I was right: THE ONLY TIME BOTH PHYSICAL AND MAGICAL ATTRIBUTES ARE IN PLAY IS WHEN YOU USE BOTH AN IMBUE AND A PHYSICAL ATTACK! You completely misinterpreted that thread for your own agenda.

Again, maybe you didn't read the whole thread:






I bolded the important parts.

Look at all the post that use physical and magical damage simultaneously, what do they have in common? IMBUE AND PHYSICAL ATTACK!
Look at all the post that only involve magical attack, what do they have in common? NO PHYSICAL DAMAGE IS APPLIED!

Did you even read that topic? lul.

Barotix, how you ever made mod status is beyond me. You seem to be incapable of refuting arguments without namecalling. Did you even make it beyond the first page of that thread?

On the last page, it mentions:
TotalDmg =
(((weapPhyPower + Str*phyReinforce + phySkillPower)*(1 + weapMastery) - phyDef) * phyBalance * skillMultiplier * phyBuff * multiplier)
+
(((weapMagPower + Int*magReinforce + magImbuePower)*(1 + forceMastery) - magDef) * magBalance * skillMultiplier * magBuff * multiplier)

Nowhere does it state there that this is for physical based attacks only, though the examples NS gives are indeed for physical based attacks since she tested it with a bow character. You want me to believe that the weapon's magical power is taken into account when I perform a chain attack, but the physical power is not taken into account when I cast a nuke? Other than assumptions, what do you base this on?