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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:05 am 
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I wanna play with Bizzle but he's in euro :(

@Scarth: My ID on the OP, but your Euro anyways... :(

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:07 am 
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ExSoldier wrote:
I wanna play with Bizzle but he's in euro :(

@Scarth: My ID on the OP, but your Euro anyways... :(

Can I 1v1 you?

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:21 am 
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Squirt wrote:
ExSoldier wrote:
I wanna play with Bizzle but he's in euro :(

@Scarth: My ID on the OP, but your Euro anyways... :(

Can I 1v1 you?

Might get on later tonight. But I'm not even in a League yet, dunno why you'd want to play me :P

XFire: rekon66

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:25 am 
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Squirt wrote:
ExSoldier wrote:
I wanna play with Bizzle but he's in euro :(

@Scarth: My ID on the OP, but your Euro anyways... :(

Can I 1v1 you?

you can 1v1 the king... ill be on over the next 4 days

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:47 am 
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http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/r ... &id=161117

Am I good? (I am Bynaar, playing as zerg)
Of course this was a Bronze match, but still. I assume the other guy played horribly, but whatever. I've won very few games right now.

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:12 am 
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To be blunt, your build is terrible. There is no way in hell you can hold off any sort of 3 rax or 2 gate immortal push. An easy way to benchmark your build is (now that we have in game clock) if by 7:00 you don't have 50+ food or a way to stop a strong early game attack (2 cloaked banshees, 2 siege tanks and a bunker etc.) then you will have lost against anyone competent.

This build is much more friendly:
10 depot
12 rax
13 gas
14 marine (continuously produce marines)
15 orbital
16 depot
@100 gas factory
1/2 factory completion take second gas
then you can choose your tech path

(note: I would save your third scan to scan him to see he's not 3 raxing, if he is you need to put up at least 1 bunker to hold)

Also note, if you notice most of your opponents don't have anything near 50 food by 7:00 you can just 3 rax every game and take free wins.


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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:31 am 
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I'm the guy who won, you know...
Nick Invaders wrote:
(I am Bynaar, playing as zerg)


edit:
I want to know, did I do a good zerg build and how can I improve it more?

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Last edited by Nick Invaders on Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:05 am 
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Ranked Silver League :)

Update: I know it's GG when I go against Zerg... :( Probably a typical noob question but how the **** do I counter zerg rush?! I have a Gateway up running producing Zealots as soon as I hit 13, can't really get a defense any sooner =/

I mean I could go ahead and learn about how to play Zerg but I really like Protoss :(

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:41 am 
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ExSoldier wrote:
Ranked Silver League :)

Update: I know it's GG when I go against Zerg... :( Probably a typical noob question but how the **** do I counter zerg rush?! I have a Gateway up running producing Zealots as soon as I hit 13, can't really get a defense any sooner =/

I mean I could go ahead and learn about how to play Zerg but I really like Protoss :(


Sub-Plat you're probably going to see a lot of early pools, especially 6 pools, from Zerg.

Best thing to do is send a scout probe after your 9/10 pylon or earlier. If you see a pool down already, throw down a gateway Asap at your choke.

Remember to wall your entrance ramp. Place your initial pylon and gateway so it creates a 1 space chokepoint right at your main base's ramp. Only do this when vsing Zerg though.

Zerg is much harder to get used to as its a reactive race and you need to learn drone/unit spawn timings, unlike Toss/Terran where the general idea is to always make workers and always use your production buildings.


Catch me online (US) and I can give some pointers to anyone

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:53 am 
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http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/r ... &id=161199

I went up against a gold leaguer and held up for 44 minutes, in which I think I did pretty well. But he somehow destroyed me
Can you guys tell me what I am doing wrong?
(build wise, attack timing time, unit composition)

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Nick Invaders wrote:
I'm the guy who won, you know...
Nick Invaders wrote:
(I am Bynaar, playing as zerg)


edit:
I want to know, did I do a good zerg build and how can I improve it more?

My bad, I read that but after watching a replay I usually think the guy who loses is the one asking.

Luckily, everything I said is still true: your build sucks. Gas before pool means you have to put down a pool as soon as you have 200 minerals, that way when you have 100 gas your pool finishes and you can start speed researches. You waited 40 game seconds after getting enough money to start a pool this is extremely important as I'll explain in the paragraph after next.

14 gas/14 pool is the right idea, but you can't really afford to lose 40 seconds on your pool, you'd get raped by any kind of rush. You need to build your second queen from your first hatch before your second hatch is near completion, this gives you creep tumor to spread while still larva injecting, the creep tumor helps you get units between bases to defend as well as more queens = easier banshee rush defense.

Back to your pool timing, with lings coming out 40 seconds earlier, you can send 2 to his front to check if he's walled-in. If not just mass lings and kill him, why play a 30 min game when you can kill him in 8? If you feel thats "cheap" or some other moral dilemma with killing idiots, send in 14ish speedlings and kill his workers so you're more ahead economically into the mid game. Just remember to scout.

My 7 min benchmark thingy still stands: The average low diamond player (pretty bad) can get 40-50 (anything above low diamond they'll have 50 food every time) food in 7 minutes, you have 28 food and an awesome army of 13 zerglings and a queen, no way in hell you can hold that. I'll attach a replay in a bit of me doing the average 3 rax against a comp, look at my unit composition and ask yourself every game whether or not you can hold against that army. If not your build is not gonna cut it.

After you can get an army to hold the 3-rax with FE, you'll probably find shit like banshees annoying, well, chances are, if your army can hold a 7 min 3-rax push, theirs probably can't especially if they got high tier units like banshees, so just go kill him with your army. (don't forget to scout ahead with 2 lings)

If you have trouble macroing (1.5k+ minerals in <10 min, 200 energy queen) throw down 2 more hatcheries in your main. Pros usually do this 20+ min into the game, but since you're struggling so early they you need to do this earlier. When you get better/more apm then you can cut back, but as of now, if you see your money >800 mins throw down a second hatch. If you see it over 800 min again, throw down a third one etc.

edit:
Here's the 3rax: http://www.mediafire.com/?nrupum38wxwfhmn
If you're thinking, wow you played bad forgetting scvs and a couple seconds on production cycles and walled in wrong, yup, that's all true cause I'm rusty, but that army would stim and still roll you. Benchmark your builds against that 7 min push, if you can't survive with your expansion, you gotta play better/use a better build.


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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:48 pm 
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When using the term "Food" it refers to the supply count, so 50 food would mean 50/x supply, NOT 50 units.

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:51 pm 
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Ror wrote:
when you say food...do you mean just 50/50 supply or like 50 fighting units o.o?

Food = Warcraft 3 term (equivalent of supply in SC)


aznshadow wrote:
ExSoldier wrote:
Ranked Silver League :)

Update: I know it's GG when I go against Zerg... :( Probably a typical noob question but how the **** do I counter zerg rush?! I have a Gateway up running producing Zealots as soon as I hit 13, can't really get a defense any sooner =/

I mean I could go ahead and learn about how to play Zerg but I really like Protoss :(


Sub-Plat you're probably going to see a lot of early pools, especially 6 pools, from Zerg.

Best thing to do is send a scout probe after your 9/10 pylon or earlier. If you see a pool down already, throw down a gateway Asap at your choke.

Remember to wall your entrance ramp. Place your initial pylon and gateway so it creates a 1 space chokepoint right at your main base's ramp. Only do this when vsing Zerg though.

Zerg is much harder to get used to as its a reactive race and you need to learn drone/unit spawn timings, unlike Toss/Terran where the general idea is to always make workers and always use your production buildings.


Catch me online (US) and I can give some pointers to anyone


What you'r code?

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:00 pm 
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SM-Count wrote:
Nick Invaders wrote:
I'm the guy who won, you know...
Nick Invaders wrote:
(I am Bynaar, playing as zerg)


edit:
I want to know, did I do a good zerg build and how can I improve it more?

Spoiler!


Thanks for the tips, and I'll check out that game when I have time. I know I'm not that great. I just got this game a couple weeks ago, haven't really had time to play and I'm generally not that good at playing rts's.

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:18 pm 
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I criticized your build, not you as a person =)

@squirt
Use this build for 4 gate:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/4 ... s._Protoss)

Besides that some general tactical things:
Don't wall your ramp against toss and terran, makes forming a concave harder at the top of your ramp and takes longer to pull probes to defend stuff. Plus if you get 2 gated and zealots break through, your pylon might die and then you auto lose.

You can't afford 4 gate, robo, forge on one base, you're just wasting minerals.

Don't attack up your opponents ramp unless you have scouting information and you know you will win, be content to sit outside his ramp and wait for him to come down. You can expand and he can't do anything, if he tries to walk down his ramp, just forcefield and rape his army.

Scouting: Don't just pull your scout back, keep it there until his cycore completes, you need to know everything. If you had scouted what he was doing, you would have known not to 2 gate, you could've teched. Also, after you get your scout out, put him at a tower or scout for hidden expansions.

Army composition: Don't make so many zealots, they're just there to tank until mid-late game when you get charge. Get immortals and colossus, lots of colossus.


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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:41 pm 
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If I just send my army in the opponent`s army, will they auto-attack? I feel like I'm really loosing a lot of units because I have the habit of clicking who I want to attack. My whole army goes for that one unit, moving around and pushing each other...

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:01 am 
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ExSoldier wrote:
If I just send my army in the opponent`s army, will they auto-attack? I feel like I'm really loosing a lot of units because I have the habit of clicking who I want to attack. My whole army goes for that one unit, moving around and pushing each other...


Attack move my friend.

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:30 am 
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SM-Count wrote:
I criticized your build, not you as a person =)

Well, that's sort of the reason why my build ain't that great lol

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:28 am 
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Feedback plox

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:39 am 
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The thing about remembering to do stuff is to set triggers for yourself (or at least it works for me). If you see 800 mins, lay down another hat. That way you'll unconsciously do it in a while instead of oh shit I have 3k minerals I need 5 more hatcheries.

@ror
Not sure what to say about the first game, I mean, "Don't forget to make units!" isn't gonna be helpful, but here are a few useful things:
gas before pool is good, but know that the point of this is so that the timing of when your pool finishes matches up with 100 gas, so get speed. It is so important to have zergling speed. Also, when on one base, you basically can't forget to use your queen to larva inject. 2 queens > 1 queen, you can make 2 queens, you're allowed to, use that extra energy to heal stuff and creep tumor. queens are very good, make more than one!

For your toss, if you want to 10 gate then 10/10 gate (10 pylon, 10 gate way) then its 12 cycore 13 gas 16 pylon etc. There is NO reason to get gas before cycore unless you're doing my carrier rush build. That extra gas doesn't help, if you want more gas to tech quickly, cut your zealot and get your second gas earlier or skip warp gates and get your tech building faster. If you want a true 4 gate rush, stop chrono on your nexus/gate after 2 and then with a proper 12/13 cycore you'll have enough chrono to chrono your warp gate research 100% of the way there. However, to have enough gateways up in time requires some probe cutting (i.e. all in) but it makes the rush much more powerful.

one more thing, get a sentry, you'd get rocked by 3 rax without a sentry.


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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:28 am 
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im able to play now <<<<<<<<<

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:49 am 
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Ror wrote:
wut the phuck the 2nd video isnt even me...it was supposed to be a 1v1 :O?!?

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new video..i rly need help with this. It's teh MMM ball of rapeage Q_Q....Im getting put with pure silver players now and im guessing its almost time for me to rank up? :\...ive been succesfully doing a 7 roach rush against anything that isnt a zerg, and 10 pooling zergs lol. I can beat almost anything on my current league except an early MMM rush Q_Q

My thoughts after reviewing it: Moar infestors/corruptors [i honestly forgot to make infestors]

Your army composition lost you the game, ling-bling-muta is the way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:13 am 
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Screw toss, Ima learn how to play zerg 8)

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:59 am 
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ExSoldier wrote:
Screw toss, Ima learn how to play zerg 8)

Much harder at higher levels imo

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:57 am 
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Azilius wrote:
ExSoldier wrote:
Screw toss, Ima learn how to play zerg 8)

Much harder at higher levels imo

Screw zergs (6pool was too predictable), Ima learn how to play terran 8)

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:46 am 
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SM-Count wrote:
The thing about remembering to do stuff is to set triggers for yourself (or at least it works for me). If you see 800 mins, lay down another hat. That way you'll unconsciously do it in a while instead of oh shit I have 3k minerals I need 5 more hatcheries.

@ror
Not sure what to say about the first game, I mean, "Don't forget to make units!" isn't gonna be helpful, but here are a few useful things:
gas before pool is good, but know that the point of this is so that the timing of when your pool finishes matches up with 100 gas, so get speed. It is so important to have zergling speed. Also, when on one base, you basically can't forget to use your queen to larva inject. 2 queens > 1 queen, you can make 2 queens, you're allowed to, use that extra energy to heal stuff and creep tumor. queens are very good, make more than one!

For your toss, if you want to 10 gate then 10/10 gate (10 pylon, 10 gate way) then its 12 cycore 13 gas 16 pylon etc. There is NO reason to get gas before cycore unless you're doing my carrier rush build. That extra gas doesn't help, if you want more gas to tech quickly, cut your zealot and get your second gas earlier or skip warp gates and get your tech building faster. If you want a true 4 gate rush, stop chrono on your nexus/gate after 2 and then with a proper 12/13 cycore you'll have enough chrono to chrono your warp gate research 100% of the way there. However, to have enough gateways up in time requires some probe cutting (i.e. all in) but it makes the rush much more powerful.

one more thing, get a sentry, you'd get rocked by 3 rax without a sentry.

Was that second portion for my replay or rors?

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:51 am 
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SM-Count wrote:
I criticized your build, not you as a person =)

@squirt
Use this build for 4 gate:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/4 ... s._Protoss)

Besides that some general tactical things:
Don't wall your ramp against toss and terran, makes forming a concave harder at the top of your ramp and takes longer to pull probes to defend stuff. Plus if you get 2 gated and zealots break through, your pylon might die and then you auto lose.

You can't afford 4 gate, robo, forge on one base, you're just wasting minerals.

Don't attack up your opponents ramp unless you have scouting information and you know you will win, be content to sit outside his ramp and wait for him to come down. You can expand and he can't do anything, if he tries to walk down his ramp, just forcefield and rape his army.

Scouting: Don't just pull your scout back, keep it there until his cycore completes, you need to know everything. If you had scouted what he was doing, you would have known not to 2 gate, you could've teched. Also, after you get your scout out, put him at a tower or scout for hidden expansions.

Army composition: Don't make so many zealots, they're just there to tank until mid-late game when you get charge. Get immortals and colossus, lots of colossus.


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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:57 am 
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Oh haha, I'm sorry, totally missed that xD

So go colossi when I go against a toss player later in the game?
And I need 1 expo to support 4 gates?

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:32 am 
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You played against David ror? :O

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 Post subject: Re: [Official] SRF Starcraft II Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:24 pm 
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Squirt wrote:
Oh haha, I'm sorry, totally missed that xD

So go colossi when I go against a toss player later in the game?
And I need 1 expo to support 4 gates?

You can support 4 gate on 1 base, you need expo to support 4 gate + other stuff, however if you continuously make units out of 4 gates you'll never have money for an expansion so you'll have to decide when to cut a production round for an expansion. Colossus are the standard for late game PvP cause if you get 4+ of them and your opponent only has gateway units you'll roll him with splash damage. Though you still need to keep a few immortals around to kill his colossus, the number is situational since you don't want to fall behind on colossus number.


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